Considering that Rashmi Bansal is a product of Indian Institute of Management (IIM), Ahmedabad, she ought to be the last person to pen a book on people who have made it big without an MBA degree. She in fact upholds the view that an MBA is in fact just an embellishment and many successful people have made it big without one. But that’s exactly why she wrote the book ‘Connect the Dots‘, she says. “There is just too much importance given to the MBA degree. There are all sorts of success stories of people who have not done an MBA so why so much of fuss for the degree,” she asks.

That said, her second book is in stark contradiction to her previous one (Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish). While the first celebrated the ability of MBAs to be successful entrepreneurs, the second suggests that one need not have an MBA in order to start and run a successful business. Lajwanti D’souza speaks to Rashmi Bansal and understand the author behind the book.

Your first book celebrates the MBA as a route to entrepreneurship while the second says that one need not have an MBA to be an entrepreneur. How do you explain the contradiction?

The earlier book was commissioned by IIMA and was naturally an effort to highlight those who have become successful after graduating from a b-school. That book was meant to be on successful MBAs, so it was. But my new book is what I have personally realised and felt strongly about and that is that you do not need an MBA to be successful. There are lots of success stories of those who have made it without an MBA. The MBA-hype has to be grounded.

So you think that the MBA degree is over-hyped?

Yes, there is an obsession with the degree. As if one cannot do anything without the degree. My book says that there are lots of ways of making it big in this world. The MBA is no ticket to success. People are missing out on varied experiences in this world. Lots of young people have just one goal – MBA. They don’t realise that by doing other things and experimenting and taking different steps, one can also make it big. You have to have different experiences in your life before you embark on that one thing. Yes, you need to have that one quality to stand out in the crowd for people to support you. People only look at what an external factor or another person can do for you. We don’t go deep into what we can do for ourselves. When I was once on an interview panel at a b-school, a bus conductor’s son came for the interview. I was sure he would never be able to afford the fees but he said his father had advised him to do the MBA while he was still working for which he could take a loan from the provident fund. I didn’t think that the boy needed to do an MBA. His communication and English skills were also poor. But if we said a ‘no’ to him, he would pay money and do it elsewhere. We discussed rural management with him, though I don’t remember what happened finally. This boy is typical of so many people who has a typical mindset about MBA.

Did you find a similar feeling among the 20 entrepreneurs you spoke to in your new book?

Yes, they have all at some time decided to give themselves a push. Whether it is Kunwer Sachdev of Su-kam, Chetan Mani of the Reva Electric Car or Sunita Ramnathka of Fem Care Pharma. They are simple people who have thought big and taken giant steps to achieve what they have. They did not run after a degree as if it were the last thing in the world to do. They have lived different experiences and done many things to get where they are. This is what is missing in many young people who think that getting into a b-school, especially an IIM is the last of the trials. And after the degree, life is made.

How much time did you spend with each of the entrepreneurs featured in your book?

I spent from a couple of hours, to a day or two depending on the situation and the person. For some, I made factory visits besides just speaking to the person. For those located out of Mumbai, I did what I could do in the given time. It is not possible to make several trips out of Mumbai.

But that is what you have been criticised for. That you do not spend enough time with the people you write about in the book. Do you think in a couple of hours, you can get the essence of the person’s efforts?

I know people say that about my books but I don’t want to research a person to death. I am not writing a biography on the person. I didn’t speak to the families of the people either. I ask questions to the people I write about and they speak and more than often, they keep speaking, so they say what comes naturally to them. For the earlier book I wrote (Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish) I was given three months to finish my research and I thought then that it was too short a time frame. But I did finish it in three months and that was actually enough time. That’s when I realised that one can speak to a person for a few hours and get what one wants. They tell me what they think is important for my subject and if I don’t get what I want, I ask more. But as long as I have got what I need to put in the book, the time taken with the person does not matter. I record all what they say and then transcribe it. So what I write down may not even be all of what they have said.

How did you shortlist on the 20 people? Why not more or less?

There were some more people I spoke to but since I did not get what I wanted, I did not include them. Some stories were not impressive. It is not easy getting first generation entrepreneurs. There are those who have changed their business from that of the family’s but to get those who have ventured out on their own and are first in the family to get into entrepreneurship are few.

Did the economic recession affect your work?

Yes it did. People did not want to talk to me. They were not sure of what to speak about their companies at that stage. Some did not get back at all. Some I could not get through to, and had to be content speaking to their assistants. Some I could not get hold of their personal emails. It was a tough year for many and some even said they would rather write an autobiography than be featured in my book.

What is in it for an average reader in your book?

The individual stories are the connecting point. People like to find similarities in the stories they read and their lives. Even if the person in the book has a father who went to a particular school and the reader’s father also went to the same school, the reader forms a connection. Life stories become inspiring for readers. Readers like to read and form parallels with their own lives.

Doing business in India, ethics and success don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. Was that a concern while choosing companies?

Yes, I looked for ethical stories. (But at the same time) I am not doing investigative journalism in my book. I am writing about the person’s experiences on his way to where he or she has reached. Bharat Vikas Group does facilities management for the Rashtrapati Bhavan and Parliament House so it makes sense to speak to Bharat Vikas than any other company that does facilities management. I may not be 100% right in all my cases but I try to speak to those who are ethically right. The size of the company is of no relevance to me. My theme is (on the personal experiences of) non-MBAs and not a study on top companies.

How did you go about shortlisting the people you wanted to talk to?

First, I looked for those who got into business without an MBA and did well. The next level of search was for those people who took the pains to get into a specific business or venture. Like R Sriram (Crossword Bookstores) wanted to be part of a bookstore only. He did not want to enter any other business. There is a difference. If everybody makes plastic buckets and you open another company making plastic buckets, it’s not a big deal. But if you make different types of plastic buckets or buckets of another material, then it is something.

Why are your books so urban in nature? Why are there no rural entrepreneurs in your book?

My readers are urban so naturally I write on urban people. Since my job was to get first generation of successful entrepreneurs, I didn’t think I would find many of them in rural India. I am only trying to write about people ahead of their time. And I didn’t get enough interesting people in smaller towns. I did got to Patna for my work, though.

Have you been able to find out a stereotype among the people you spoke to? Do all successful entrepreneurs have similar growth charts?

Not at all. They are all unique. At the surface level, they are all up there but their stories are different. Their backgrounds are different so their paths are different too. What I did find was that all the people I spoke to wanted to do things differently. All bright people are not destined to open big companies. But some take bold steps to realise their potential.

Why are there so few women in the book?

I did not get enough women. In India, women entrepreneurs is a different concept. For every successful man, there is a lady who can be given credit for his success. But who is there for a woman?  Maybe her maid servant. In India, it is taken for granted that the woman has to look after the house and the children, no matter what post she holds at her workplace. Society makes her responsible for all functions in her house to the point that if there is a slip-up somewhere, she is made to feel guilty about it. The man has no such pressures. He can walk in and out of his office and home and squarely look at his career path. He may not even be aware of which class his children are in. But can you expect an Indian woman to take ten years of her life and only concentrate on her career? It might work only if she is unmarried or in some cases, does not have children. But otherwise, it is asking too much and there are few cases of such type to speak about. Also an MBA for a woman might actually be a good idea. Post-college, if she does an MBA, at least she can put off marriage for a few years, broaden her horizon and think of different careers.

Planning the next book? What is it about?

Yes, it is going to be on social entrepreneurs. Should be done by early next year.

Going by the book, do you say your own MBA was a waste?

Not at all. I enjoyed doing MBA. At IIMA, we were treated like adults. You know, one of the first exams we appeared for, we were allowed to go for a walk, to the restroom or even check our books while we sat for the exams. There was no supervision like there is in schools or other colleges. Of course, since the emphasis was little on theory, there was hardly anything that we could copy. And since there was so much freedom, people never felt like copying. Today it is different, theory forms such a large part of the study. There is so much emphasis on what is in the books. If teachers are not participative today, there will be little learned by students. As it is students hardly open their mouths in the first year. I did my MBA only because while I was a journalist, I was promised that I would head a ‘youth section’ supplement in the paper. That was eventually denied to me because I was too young and that’s when I felt a degree would have helped me get that assignment, that’s when I thought of the MBA. Also the newspaper where I worked, there were two IIM interns who brainwashed me into joining an IIM which is why I finally did it.

What does your daughter think about your books?

My daughter is small but she comes for my book events. She does not think highly of my books. She also thinks I am not cued in enough into music and I don’t know as much as I should. Children are the best reality check one can have.